Posts by Make Lemonade

2

Scientific basis for Captives of a Concept?

by Londo111 in

jw
friends

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140612104950.htm.

when people get together in groups, unusual things can happen -- both good and bad.

groups create important social institutions that an individual could not achieve alone, but there can be a darker side to such alliances: belonging to a group makes people more likely to harm others outside the group.. "although humans exhibit strong preferences for equity and moral prohibitions against harm in many contexts, people's priorities change when there is an 'us' and a 'them,'" says rebecca saxe, an associate professor of cognitive neuroscience at mit.

Make Lemonade

Thanks for this information. It will be useful to help answer the question: "how does the Wt. maintain control?"

162

True Stories from the Tower - Part 1 "From Anointed to Pedophile to Bethelite"

by BluePill2 in

before i dive into the actual write-up of this experience, let me put some things straight.. i have thought long and hard if i should write more about my experiences during the 10+ years at different branches.

during these years i worked from financial department, service department, home office and different it assignments.

as you can imagine one sees and hears and reads a lot of stuff going through different stations in different countries.

Make Lemonade

Again, I want to express my appreciation for this forum, and in particular this post. ALL the comments are thought provoking in a practical way to myself and family. You are all expressing a discussion of risk vs. benefit. Do you risk your personal security/ comfort to try to correct harmful policies and actions of the WT leadership?

This discussion has motivated me to move forward to do what I can to make people aware of very serious problems. In my personal case, I would feel that being a coward would be worse than any additional ad hominem attacks against me and my family. That is my personal situation and decision. Even though I feel very strongly about this course of action for me, I still see room for others deciding differently, although I must confess, a strong disappointment in what others have not done, but remain hopeful that they will do something sometime in the future. Perhaps reading the comments on this thread will move them to take actions that will benefit others. BluePill2 is raising awareness.

One thing about BluePill's actions that are encouraging to me is that others know his whole story. Among those others, who know his story, there are many of them networked into a much larger group that is actively working hard to bring about a relief from the WT oppression.

Be afraid WT! To those that are working hard: Carry on!

23

80 Year old COBE Layoff Conspiracy

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

who else thinks something is afoot with this?

is the gb deciding to go back to pre-1971 times with perhaps the cobe as the man in charge and the rest just ministerial servants.

so for this reason they want younger men in those postitions?

Make Lemonade

In my former congregation, the last two men appointed to the office of C.O.B.E. had far less experience than everyone else on the body. One was removed at a very questionable time when compared to the events going on in two overlapping abuse cases. The inexperienced elder's deletion left the C.O.B.E. position open. The next appointed man was also young and inexperienced. Both of these young elders complied unquestioningly to the WT. lawyers directions. While these young elders new of the directions from the lawyers, more experienced elders on the body were kept in the dark. At least that is what they told me when I refused to deal with the compromised COBE and went to them. This is not a theory but simply a factual report of actual events. The current COBE still presides over elders with far more experience. I know this to be not in harmony with past policy. The newest and least experienced elders would be given time to become "seasoned". It just goes agianst basic common sense for this to have taken place. Add the drama of Wt. lawyers in the background and you really begin to realize the depth of manipulation that has gone on behind the scenes in our experience.

I will follow this thread with great interest wanting to find out if any other elder has gone thru what our group of family and friends has and is enduring.

72

I am on the edge of a freak out ..... I think???

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

so the rc really sucked, but i made it through.

the propaganda was mind blowing.

i don't know if the crap will be available on the official website or not, but hopefully it gets leaked somehow.

Make Lemonade

Hi Data Dog: Reading how you feel makes me want to share what I do when the emotional pain reaches the level you have described. First however let me say that all the advice on this post comes from the heart of those sharing what they think. That in itself can encourage you. You are not "crazy" or alone. From what so many have already shared you have more than enough suggestions to choose from. I am sure you have already found many that work for you.

Now to what I do when I need relief form the pain you are describing. I leave my house as early in the morning as possible. Have breakfast in a restaurant that reminds me of good times. Then I head to the beach. I am close to some unbelievably beuatiful places. The ocean, birds, deer, elk, flowers, etc. are all the drug I need. In the first 10 miniutes of walking in a beautiful area I feel relief. It is all the drug I need.

Take your wife and daughter with you. Enjoy something like this together. Hold hands and talk about how nice it is where you are. We cannot always be expected to deal with Watctower issues 24/7. We all need to have a break. I had to go to the beach just two days ago. It worked well and gave me the ability to deal with some difficult situations at work and in the crazy Watchtower world.

11

Published life story of Australian ex-Witness. An absorbing read.

by MrMonroe in

there are a number of books available on amazon giving the life stories of ex-witnesses.

i've always been intrigued by one called "i'm perfect, you're doomed" by kyria abrahams, which sounds like a witty read.

one day i'll buy it!.

Make Lemonade

Hi Helen

We are happy you survived and will add your book to our must read list. From the comments we can see your experience will be in the "recovery is possible" catagory. It will be enjoyable to see the details of how you did it. Thanks for sharing

24

An update on shunning (at the store).

by quellycatface in

jw
friends

i was called into a meeting by one of the department managers last week.

i had a meeting this morning.. anyway, to cut a long story short.

the people involved in this will be called into a private meeting and spoken to.

Make Lemonade

quellycatface: What you have done with the managers in the supermarket is to open up a dialog about the fairness of shunning. Awarness is another word that appears whenever a "whistleblower" or "protestor" is trying to make a point. In addition, the concept of "Fairness" begins to be evaluated by the audience to whom the protest is directed. Your actions have brought up what you consider to be unfair actions to an audience that can do something about it. For those reasons I have to encourage you to keep up the good work.

Let me try to encourage you even more with an experience. My son was disfellowshipped the same night I was. He took no nonsense from the "glorious ones" who needed their ego's left intake. My son spoke to them "without any approval for any of their nonsense". They had a choice; 1) Do the right thing or 2) Continue to be complicit with the wrongdoing. They chose badly and opted for choice 2. Now to the actual experience of my daughter in law. She works with several J.W.s . Around 6 or so people including a relative. Most of the time she works from home, but needs to go to the main office every so often. She is just an adorable person who everyone has to like. Well, just because her husband was announced as "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" her treatment at work changed. She was actually being hated and bullied by J.W.s at work. The unfairness reached a low point when her witness superviser threatened her with punishment because she was 5 miniutes late coming in. This statement had nothing to do with reality, it is easy to identify as harassment brought on by what happened to her husband. Let me explain further.

As the events became noticeable to the owners of the company they approached my daughter in law. They could not understand the behavior they were seeing for themselves. Naturally, they took her aside and asked her to explain to them why her former "close friends" were now treating her so badly. She expained the situation with her husband. She explained the pressure this situation at work was causing her. Also, she informed them of the threat her J.W. supervisor made. The owners responded by specifically telling her that what her supervisor said is not true and she is not to worry about that.

So, look what happened in your case and my daughter in laws. Shunning practices of witnesses have affecting business managers and owners. On an individual basis awareness of injustice has occured. Maybe even labor laws could be used to persue compensation from the injustice. Are these business people entitled to discipline their employes? My daughter in law is so sweet that the thought of taking legal actions has not even occured to her. I am proud of her to have the courage to make her story known to the owners of the company she works for. She has been rewarded by knowing the bullying will not be tolerated toward her. At work she now has a refuge from the unjust treatment from former friends and family. Remember, she is not even disfellowshipped.

Now your experience and my daughters in laws experience have made a contribution to exposing the unchristian interpretation of disfellowshipping. I would say the vast majority of posters here would gladly make the public aware of this Watchtower madness. Perhaps the society will be best exposed by the death of a thousand cuts. People like you and my daugthter in law communicating with people when they can. We all can see that sometimes actions are rewarded. Doing nothing is not always the best solution.

Thank you for your actions and sharing your experience.

36

Heads Up: If you are an older JW, WT has no further use for you!

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

wt is retiring district overseers, has sent older jws serving at bethel packing despite years of faithful service, and as of june 1, 2014, has announced that any elder that has reached 80 years of age is no longer valued or wanted as a cobe.

in wt land it would appear that older people have little or no value, and wt sees no reason to use them in any meaningful capacity.

i wonder how this makes older ones feel after devoting their lives to wt's interests while shelving their own hopes and dreams?.

Make Lemonade

Don't call me shirley: This is thought provoking. Your facts are appreciated. Whatever is going on with this age thing in the Watchtower I can not say for sure. However, I have to wonder if witnesses who all old enough to remember what they were taught in the past are not more likely to ask, "why was I taught something that was not the truth". Then the next question "how does it make me feel to have preached something that proved to not be the truth?"

It still bothers me that I taught many things that just are not true. My list of people I needed to apologize to is now smaller. Being D.F.ed and hearing the "warning talks" that include "do not even say hi or great them in any way", "eliminate them from your social media", The elder speaker uses "sly" and "mentally deseased" to get his point accross. So the chances of me giving a detailed apology about teaching things like, 1914 generation, end within the 20th century, etc. is getting between slim and none.

So I do not put it past them to eliminate righteous men, or men who have the potential to simple explain their history in a factual manner. Can not prove this, but see this as a motivation in a lot of things the Watchtower does. It is a self-preservation motive.

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

Newly Enlightened: Thanks for the "repeat for emphases" LOL. I have enjoyed you and your husbands work.

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

Aunt Fancy: Well I did bring up Campos didn't I? Even though I believe this case contains the most definitive facts of any abuse case I am aware of, it is also the most unsettling and disturbing. When I was in high school, we were required to watch movies about auto accidents. "Red Asphalt" was the title of one of them. The images of carnage are still burned into my brain to this day. Perhaps I am a better driver because of it. Whatever? Be warned that if you go down this rabbit hole, it can be a real shocker. Not being flippant or disrespectful to you when I say that you could find yourself discussing this with your therapist. If you know about the movie "The Matrix" it is the same as being offered the "red pill" or the "blue pill".

This case has a "gag" order. The press has not got into much detail. As a result, the outrage is non existent. Briefly, channel 10 news in San Diego aired a video taped deposition of Gonzalo Campos. Included were comments from Irwin Zalkin and Jim McCabe. One thought that Jim McCabe expressed was that bad men slip into the organization. When and if you acquire the details I want to know how you feel about the word "slip". Does that really give a true understanding of the facts?

O.K. enough of the warnings. We are adults who need to know the details of the evil. All you have to do is Google search: "Campos Abuse", "John Dorman", "Joel Gamboa", "Irwin Zalkin".

One more thing for me to share about this case. The messages in Star Wars can be deep. Joseph Campbell influenced the stories of "Star Wars". His book, "A Hero of a Thousand Faces", is on my must finish list. Luke Skywalker is the "reluctant hero". He is the "hero of a thousand faces". Art imitates life or life imitates art? When you read the details of the case, I would like to know if you would agree that Manuela Dorman is a "hero of a thousand faces"? She could be "Princess Leia" in my opinion. Watchtower could be the evil empire. Her story is not fiction. It makes her a real hero to me. Knowing about her example helped me when I gave my deposition. I was in the room with the same men she opposed. How about that?!

Enjoy your journey, Aunt Fancy. Let me know how you are doing along the way.

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

LisaRose:We missed your reply last night. Read it this morning. Great summary of your life. What I have noticed about myself recently is now I want more details. Like I had to watch T.V. in black and white. Having people explain what is and has gone on in their JW experience is like seeing a movie in color as compared to black and white. Or the difference between a picture of a forest in Maine during Autumn and then walking in that forest your self. Being a witness really does damage us in many ways. Many of us can study the facts like History, quotes, false teachings, "light gets brighter", etc.. You know the drill. These things are black and white. True vs. false. You believe it or not. I love the expression: "I used to believe that, now I don't".

What takes more time is dealing with the deeper effects that you are not totally aware of. When I began to search for answers, I would not go to "apostate" web sites. I compiled a page of sites that I called nuetral. Internet Archive, Google Books, etc.. Now I do not care. Guilt, fear, shame are products of Watchtower evil. Ambient abuse and bullying are just words. Propaganda is just a word. These words are described in black and white on paper. It is the emotion that these things cause that is the color we need. When we can talk to a person who can describe the colors of their history, and we can see their experiences in colors, that is when we can start to shed the harmful effects of what the Watchtower does.

Not saying that facts are not important. Like my meat thermometor. It says 185 degrees for Pork. I never could get the pork to 185, but still felt concerned that I could make someone or myself sick by not killing the "unseen" dangers. I might have had a phobia about Trichinosis. Now that the false information has been identified, I will enjoy cooking and eating pork chops that much more. Would it not be great if we all could find a formula just this simple and move past our Jehovah's Witness backgrounds? We quickly realize how wrong the Watchtower is when they use our family and friends as hostages to keep us involved with a damaging way of life.

Happy you made it out. Happy you can share your experience.